Editors Note: By the time you read this interview, your ballot will be cast. But whoever you voted for, the future is ours to craft.
Immense thanks to Angela Walker and Ian Murphy for making this possible.
2020 has been a year of suffering in the U.S. that nobody could have predicted. Vast, raging fires across the Pacific West. A pandemic that, at time of writing, has claimed over 229,000 lives, and looks set to claim many more. Drought. Unprecedented heatwaves. Record numbers of unemployment claims. Look back at predictions made as 2019 came to a close and these were not on people’s bingo cards.
But if we’re honest, none of this is new and none of this was unexpected. We chose to focus on political horse races and sports and music charts and how many followers the latest hot influencer has on Instagram all the while our environment was screaming, loud and clear, that we have a problem.
I sat down with Angela Walker, the Green Party/Socialist Party USA nominee for Vice President to ask her about the state of the world and what her vision is for the future. In a simple, plant-lined room with her beloved dog, Dida, running in and out, we spent an afternoon in conversation.
Angela speaks in a way that’s calm, but passionate and resolute. It’s hard to argue with the core concepts.
Can you describe your vision of the world?
I want a world where we as human beings are living in harmony with what the planet needs from us. A world where we are not creating garbage, where we are not sending agents into the air and the water and the soil that are harmful, that pollute, where we are working within ecological limits, respectfully. A world where because we understand and relationship and our responsibility to the earth and to the air we also understand our responsibility to one another too to not have capitalists exploiting us, where we are not participating so that one culture does well at the expense of all the others. These things are not acceptable. So I want a world that’s in balance with what our planet needs that is respectful of the non-human life and natural beauty and is also respectful of the human life on the planet as well.
It’s shocking that in 2020 we still have to have a conversation about whether we should be putting pollutants into the air, into the water and into the ground. It seems like common sense.
I think it’s common sense to us who think outside the boundaries that capitalism has put around us. There’s a lot of folks who go by what they’ve always known and this is the way it is and how it has to be. This is the natural order of things.
Unfortunately a lot of people who think that way collude with industries and corporations that are polluters and exploiters. Those folks are in power. You’re right, it is shameful. It’s painful that it’s 2020 where we live in an age in which you can literally hold a computer in your hand. When I was a kid that was the sort of thing we thought about as space age. I was a kid in the 80s! To do what you and I are doing right now – to talk to each other real time through a computer screen – is amazing and we should not be having the same sad, painful conversation about the stuff we should have remedied years ago. It’s awful.
When my Dad was school, they had one computer and it filled a room. When I was in school we had two BBC computers that were so basic by todays standards. Innovation can do so much when it’s channeled in the right direction. That’s what gives me cause for hope.
We need long-term solutions but we also need practical, achievable steps to help us get there. What would be different after four years with you as Vice President? What could be accomplished in so little time?
I see us being able to implement a test, trace and isolate program for the Coronavirus epidemic and getting support in place so folks are financially supported and not forced out into the workplace while they are undergoing treatment. I see us putting the first and second phases of shifting to Medicare For All – that is a community controlled national health service. I see us implementing our plan for reversing climate change under our EcoSocialist Green New Deal. I see us being able to close the camps that immigrant people are being detained in. I see that one thing we are able to do immediately. It’s absolutely possible to get those things up and running in four years and starting turning things.”
You mentioned support for people while undergoing treatment – Congress are out of touch with the reality that people often have to work while sick because otherwise they won’t get paid, the rent won’t get paid, their car will be repossessed, they won’t have money to put food on the table or buy medicine.
Can you tell me more about the payments that would support people while they’re sick?
19,000 Amazon workers ended up with COVID-19. That’s what it means to be an essential worker. This country gives a lot of lip service to “you’re necessary”. Hey, we have always been necessary workers! Pay us. We don’t need a bunch of token gestures. Pay us. Makes sure we have health insurance and provide a way so that folks don’t have to be forced out in the workforce during a plague. Every adult would get $2,000 a month, every child would get $500.
As a backdrop to all of that we would have Medicare For All implemented so that if people are sick or getting exposed they’re able to get the treatment they need without losing their homes or their savings to do it.
The way the epidemic has been handled by this administration has been a fiasco. It’s been criminal. One of the things we would have done is to invoke the Defense Production Act to produce PPE, making sure workers have the protection – PPE - they need in every possible way. It was unspeakable to have nurses working in garbage bags.
At the top of our platform is a test, trace and treat program so we can monitor the spread of Coronavirus and study how we can corral it.
We’d make sure small businesses owners – actual small business owners – would be able to keep their businesses and their employees. Landlords – people owning rental properties – we’d make sure landlords are still able to meet their obligations without leaning on the tenant.
The Green New Deal, championed by House Member Alexandria Ocasio-Cortex and Senator Ed Markey, has been a major talking point for progressives in the Democratic Party since at least 2018.
Jill Stein ran for President for the Green Party in 2012 and 2016 with a Green New Deal at the heart of her platform and this years Green Party presidential nominee, Howie Hawkins, included a Green New Deal in his platform when he ran for Governor of New York in 2010.
Angela laughs when I mention the Democrats’ Green New Deal.
The biggest and most glaring difference is the fact that we actually support it. Joe Biden recently said “No! I do not support a Green New Deal.” We know you don’t, thank you for admitting it. It’s our Green New Deal. We are not talking about continuing fracking. We are not talking about building new nuclear energy plants. We are not talking about still having this dance we are in with the fossil fuel industries. No! We know who the major polluters are and you are not going to be serious about reversing climate change if you are continuing to work with these folks.
We understand that we can not be serious about reversing climate change while holding hands with major polluters – that would be one major difference between our plan and the Democrats, who took our plan and watered it down and then scrapped it completely.
Does that sound harsh? Angela’s referencing Joe Biden’s words in the first presidential debate. Some Democrats will still pursue the policy but Biden’s rejection of it was outright and fulsome. Without significant agitation from progressives (which may happen and may be successful) it’s clear nothing like the Green New Deal will pass under a Biden administration. No wonder Angela has a lot of feelings about the Democrats’ plans.
Angela is running on a unified platform, the Green Party and Socialist Party USA (SPUSA) and other, smaller left-wing parties.
The left has a reputation for being able to disagree with itself and turn a comma into an intractable stand off. The left-right binary as we know is barely a couple of hundred years old, starting with the French Revolution, with supporters of the monarchy sat on the right of the king in the National Assembly, and supporters of the revolution sat on the left. The priorities of various “left” groups are varied and sometimes have less in common than one might suppose. In effect, the left is a freely floating coalition that continuously renegotiates while fighting for core principles such as economic equality and greater freedom It’s imperfect and, at times, fragile, but it’s a space where differences are allowed and discussed and debated – sometimes endlessly – instead of being papered over by the demands for unity and loyalty we see in the big two parties. “The Left” doesn’t necessarily even aspire to unity – why have unity when you can have pluralism? Why have a two party system when you could have many?
How did you approach the process of trying to create a unifying platform? Was it a daunting task?
The Green Party adopted the EcoSocialist script in 2018 so they were already on board with what the Socialists are about. There are ideological differences. There’s the old guard who don’t think of themselves as Socialist, but policy? They go right together.
There was nothing in the platform, nothing in the party principles that I wavered on. There’s some wording I think needs to be changed that we’re discussing internally, making sure it’s inclusive and properly inclusive, but as far as the intent behind those principles – I was absolutely on board with all of it.
Howie [Hawkins] and I talked about a red-green alliance because if you think about what the Green Party’s principles are, it’s fighting capitalist exploitation of this planet, her life and her resources. It follows that you are going to stand up for the right to human life and fight against the capitalist exploitation of people. For me it’s a natural trinity between the two. You’re not put ting two things together that don’t go together. They fit.
One of the things we have been talking about in putting on the campaign is this idea of left unity. As Leftists to … everybody’s not going to agree, this is not about everybody getting on the same page singing kumbaya, no, that’s not it, but where across the left can we help each other, where can we support each other’s efforts?
Our people needs us. No matter what happens in November we’re still going to feed people, We’re still going to need to make sure people have housing, are clothed, providing medical where people are doing that sort of work. How are we able to help each other? How are we doing knowledge shares?
We need to keep up on the history of the left in this country. A lot of us don’t know … being on the left … this didn’t happen in a vacuum. Black folks, brown folks, indigenous folks, we have a long history of being Leftists in this country, a very beautiful history. Knowledge sharing needs to happen. Making sure that we as a party, both the Greens and the Socialist, joining forces to work with everyone else on the left, to build unity so that we have a Left in this country.
Angela is someone who has paid their dues, as a leader in the ATU and running for local office before being twice drafted to run on a Presidential ticket and yet people regularly complain that third party candidates only show up for presidential elections. Angela’s face illuminates with a large grin and a big laugh when I mention this, a combination of irritation and relief.
It’s like, where have you been?
People don’t understand the whole point of making sure ballot lines are open so that downballot candidates can run in local elections, that you need to hold that space open. This goes back to people needing information – they have no idea that’s why you’re doing this stuff. Knowledge sharing. It’s not the only reason we’re doing it, obviously, but you don’t just run for one reason. There’s a host of benefits for other folks.
It raises visibility for the people who are doing this work. If you’re doing this right you’re bringing those folks into the discussions with you. Look, these organizations down here are the ones putting out food every week for people. These folks over here are the ones making PPE. If you have this platform you have an obligation to make sure that the people who are not in that room with you are in that room with you.
People have to believe it’s possible [to break the hold of the two party system]. When you’re brought up a certain way you’re taught to look at it as there are two parties, there’s one good one and one bad one. I think a lot of people are realizing that you’ve got one big party with two different faces. One is bad and one is less bad.
So many things that over the years have been able to be hidden – this pandemic has opened the way for a lot of people’s blinders to fall off fast. One of the things people are finally seeing is these two parties collude with each other in making sure no voices other than their own is heard. If you’ve got a third party that is running a platform that speaks to your beliefs that you don’t have to hold your nose to vote for, give them your support. Join them.
The two party duopoly is very well funded, so if people are tired of it – help us push against it.
Pennsylvania’s got some stars, Maine’s got some stars, Michigan, Texas, we’ve got folks in California, we’ve got people running all over the country. We are running candidates – support them. A lot of people don’t realize that’s something they can do.
Angela’s personal “odyssey” has seen her move from Wisconsin, where she was born and grew up, to North Carolina and Florida before returning to her home state. She has been vocal about politics since high school and doesn’t think of herself as having “got into” politics.
One of my best friends calls it “being activated.” I grew up in a family that taught black history so I knew about the Panthers and the struggle for Black liberation in this country. That’s something I was raised with. I was in a summer school course because I can’t pass algebra to save my life. The teacher basically taught us Black History and Black Revolutionary History and I was “Right! This right here!”
I started speaking out at high school My mother was terrified because I went to school in a part of the city known for its racism. She was really afraid that something bad was going to happen to me because I was getting more and more militant. I learned early that if you want change you have to fight for it. You have to stick up. If you believe something is right you supposed to stand for it.
Angela’s first run for office came in 2014 when seemingly out of nowhere she received 20% of the vote running as an Independent Socialist against David Clarke, who back then was a minor media sensation on Fox News for his hardcore approach to law and order in Milwaukee. Angela’s 20% of the vote is a legendary and inspirational story for the Left. Angela is remarkably inclusive in how she talks about that campaign, without a shred of ego in sight.
“We polled 20% of the vote. 67,000 in Milwaukee County decided “let’s try it with her.” But it wasn’t a matter of “Hey, we want to support her.” It was, “we hate him, let’s get him out at any cost.” It was a referendum on David Clarke but I couldn’t take credit for that.”
Angela’s first Vice Presidential run came in 2016, and memories of that time still come with powerful and conflicting emotions.
I ran with my very dear friend Mimi who recently transitioned, as you know. I was his running mate in 2016 for Vice President for Socialist Party of the USA, who we are also running for this year.
I was done with politics. I was fine to put my hand in and be helpful where I could but as far as being a candidate that was not on my horizon, not something I planned to do again, and I got a call from Howie Hawkins and I was like … “Oh, well.”
I’ve known Howie since 2014. This wasn’t somebody who is a stranger to me. He and I have been on panels, we’ve had discussions, we talked about a red-green alliance years ago. To be able to embody that now is pretty amazing.
Nowadays, and this has probably always been true, it’s not enough to run for office. You have to ensure ballot access and ensure people can vote and ensure votes will be fairly counted. As the 2020 Presidential election draws closer more and more lawsuits are working their way through the courts looking to restrict the number of votes that may be counted. This has nothing to do with polls showing that Democrat supporters are more likely to vote by mail and Republicans seeking any advantage they can scrape out. Perish the thought. But it doesn’t matter how votes are counted if you can’t get on the ballot paper in the first place and both Democrats and Republicans have been forcefully arguing for third parties to be excluded from the 2020 ballot where it’s politically convenient for them.
The gerrymandering that went on in Wisconsin to the extent of the fiasco we saw during the spring elections where during a pandemic people were literally being forced to vote in person, funneled into a very small number of voting centers … and after all that then you’re finding votes in barrels in warehouses?
We need a complete overhaul of our electoral system.
I’m sure folks who have been following what’s been happening with us around the country know we’ve been attacked, basically. Our ballot access in Wisconsin, which is very personal for me as it’s my home state. Pennsylvania. The attempted attack in Texas, where we fought back and won. Montana, where the Democratic Party is the one that’s pushing us off the ballot. We are really putting forth the idea that if we are serious about having a democracy we have to have one and there need to be more voices than just Coke and Pepsi being offered to people. Party suppression is voter suppression.
We want independent, third party – people who are not connected to either party of the duopoly – to oversee these elections and polling places to make sure people can vote safely. I was in contact with the ACLU a few years ago after I witnessed voter intimidation. One of the people who was rejected from the polling place was a sitting State Representative at that time who was intimidating voters. This is very real. People say it doesn’t happen but when you see it you go “Whoa.” People are being intimidated or told they have to pay a poll tax before they can vote, things like that – the chicanery that has been happening. We need an entity that can oversee our elections. We need to have non-partisan entities in place that make sure our elections are safe.
What do you say to people who think that if they are in a competitive state, a vote for a third party makes it easier for Trump to win or makes it easier to let the Democrats in? What do you say to people in those battleground states?
We hear this all the time. If you listen to these two parties it will never be the right time. You can never step away, this is such a crucial election but if they are not giving you what you’re asking for and showing you that they’ve been listening to, why would you support them?
No matter what state I’m in – and being from Wisconsin I voted third party in 2016 and I don’t regret it. If the only way to vote is you voting for something you don’t believe in, at a time when so many people have called for defunding the police, have called for Medicare For All, have called for marijuana legalization and decriminalization, why would you vote for someone who don’t support those things and tells you they will not support such things? Why would you waste your vote that way?
Your vote is your leverage. Right now you have something they want. Make them earn it. If they do not earn it – find someone who does.
If we listen to the pundits and armchair historians, Ross Perot’s 18.9% support lost it for George W.H. Bush and Jill Stein’s 1.07% in 2016 lost it for Hillary Clinton. The problem with that is that it makes faulty assumptions about where those votes would have been cast had a third party not been on the ballot. Yes, Stein’s Green Party received more votes than the margin Trump won by but why assume Clinton would have been the beneficiary? We don’t have to assume much. The 2016 CBS News exit poll asked Stein voters how they would have voted had Stein not been on the ballot. 61% said they would not have voted, 25% said they would have voted for Clinton and 14% for Trump.
That 25-14 distinction would have narrowed the 10,704 gap by 5,600 votes - nowhere near enough to make up the gap in Michigan.
The Stein spoiler argument also ignores other third party candidates. If one were to theorize the redistribution of Stein voters we should also redistribute the 198,000 votes in Michigan that went to the Libertarian Party, Constitution Party and write-in candidate Evan McMullin, whose supporters all lean to the right. Those votes dwarf the 51,463 received by Jill Stein in Michigan. Scapegoating third parties for the failure of a Republican or Democrat nominee is a knee-jerk reacting that the available data does not support, but it’s much easier to blame someone else than to analyze what went wrong with your own campaign. Similarly, people are quicker to attack third parties today than to ask the bigger question of why their preferred candidate and platform does not appeal enough to voters considering supporting third parties.
All my life people have said “this isn’t the right time” to risk third party support. Someone must be voted out of office. Someone must be voted in. We must end the war, start a war, regain the Supreme Court, protect the Supreme Court, continue the legacy, save Social Security, save the country from a Socialist-labelled milquetoast moderate. There’s always some supposedly compelling reason to vote for one of the big two parties, above all else. The same arguments repeated in every General Election in my life are being trotted out again in 2020. What makes 2020 the right time to vote for the Green Party? Angela mouth breaks out in a big, wide grin. She clearly relishes the question.
We are at the intersection of a rebellion, of a pandemic and of an economic disaster. There is no better time for the message and policies that we are bringing.
We want to defund the military by 75% because we understand that the U.S. military is one of our biggest carbon footprints in the world,. We have a huge carbon footprint and people don’t like to hear that. I’m not worried about it. It’s the truth. If you want to reverse climate change you are going to have to downsize the military. We’ve got between 9 and 14 conflicts that are people are involved in around the world. This isn’t necessary.
What could we do as far as rebuilding the infrastructure of this country if we brought that money home and if we brought out personnel home?
We are the only party that is talking about the new nuclear arms race and the fact that we need to de-escalate and set the tone for other countries to do the same thing. We’re talking about nuclear disarmament to a level of reasonable, credible deterrent. No-one is asking us to look like sitting ducks out here.
Anyone who is objective about studying the history of this country will see we’ve been bullies for a very long time. We’ve moved through the world like the world’s policeman and that has not earned us a whole lot of love. By downsizing our military, by showing that we are ready to work with other countries from a place of co-operation and information sharing, resource sharing, especially as so many people are affected by climate change. We want to move through the world diplomatically. We have a lot of amends to make as a country. If there is a political will we can do this.
The U.S, has an international reputation and tradition of interventionist foreign policy across the world. Wherever there is war, you know the U.S. is there, either with our troops or our military equipment or shadowy advisors. You wouldn’t know it from the news but we currently have our military involved in wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Somali, Syria, Yemen, Libya …. I’m probably missing some.
Isn’t this sometimes a good thing?
Calling it interventionist is being kind. It’s meddling. It’s disrupting. It’s going into other countries and interfering in their elections, interfering with production, interfering in a way that displaces people because you’re setting up folks who the people did not ask for and now all of a sudden you have cartels running things in certain parts of the world, Warlords etc, not working in the interest of the people. We have to defund the U.S. military.
Many people think about running for office and don't know where to start. What advice would you give someone in that position?
Initially, first and foremost, check your ego. Question yourself. Why are you doing this?
Every time I ran for office it’s because I got drafted. You know me – I’m somebody who’s much happier behind a pile of books and home quietly with my dog. I’ve got my truck, I’m good. This is not a comfortable place to be but this is also a work that requires you to do a lot of soul searching. Why are you doing this? What are your motives? What is your angle? What kind of world do you want to see and how willing are you to fight for it?
Anyone thinking of running for office – do some soul searching first and make sure you are running for reasons that are for the good of those you intend to serve and you’re prepared for the exposure. Some people thrive on this – I can’t imagine that – but it’s necessary right now. Do your research on that office. What do you want to bring to it, as a person? Then check in with yourself – make sure you are staying true to what you said you were getting into this for.
What advice do you have for someone wanting to build a third party in their own district?
Make relationships.
I’m saying this to myself to – I’m not native to South Carolina. I myself am going to have to do this. Find out who’s moving what. Who are those organizers? Meet them. Offer to help. Be humble. We’re not coming into folks’ houses and telling them how they’re going to do things. We’re here to help. Build real, helpful relationships. Then when they start asking questions “Yes, I’m with the Green Party, I’m with the SP, this is who I represent.” Then when we’re doing things and need the community’s involvement, because they know us, they show up for us. It’s not an overnight process.
A lot of us on the left like this idea of theorizing, in spaces with people who think like us, but we’ve got to put this in the hands of the people who most need it. I’m not just saying this to other people/ I’m also saying it to myself.
It's been a long afternoon and Dida is getting impatient for Angela’s attention. We wind up our time together and as I leave I can’t help but think that we need more people with the integrity, frankness and passion of Angela Walker involved in politics.
— Ian Murphy